Allen,

Is ObamaCare being done 'for us' or 'to us'?

Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III

Your 'children' can stay on your healthcare plan if they live at home or are in college and are making very little money and are under employed. If you get into the particulars of the bill it appears to discourage young adults from being responsible for themselves until they're closer to thirty than they are to twenty. Liberals seem to want to infantilize the youth of this country well into adulthood, making them more and more dependent on the government to meet needs that those of us over 40 met with hard work and perseverance when we were young. This is a waste of human capital. No one got stronger and more competent having someone else carry them around making their decisions for them. Babies work hard to learn to walk and talk. Young folks need to work hard to become adults or risk behaving like spoiled children all of their lives, throwing tantrums when their benefits get taken away like the protesters in Greece and France.
You have to wonder why the federal government under this administration wants people to become so incompetent that they require bureaucrats to run their lives for them. The federal governments not big enough? The Obama administration has begun hiring over 3,000 IRS workers to implement Obama care. Why does everyone's favorite government agency have a say in my health care?

Emergency rooms and clinics serve uninsured people who get serious and un-serious illnesses. With more than twenty years as a nurse I'd be hard pressed to find anyone who avoided getting healthcare because they were uninsured.
Kids should have health insurance. A person over the age of 18 is an adult. They may be young, but they're old enough to vote, smoke, and go to war. If we treat them like children into their adult years we turn them into adult infants.
I didn't raise my kids to be timid dependents. My oldest son is in the military and my middle son got a job at 19 and moved out. He's 23 now, and he would be embarrassed to come to us for a handout. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with helping your children into adulthood, but to institutionalize their childhood into adulthood is a disservice to them and a perversion of human nature.
As it is under Obama care your adult 'kid' has to live at home and make less than (I think) $6,000 a year, meaning that they'd barely work. Unless they're in college and working toward a degree, sitting around the house underemployed until you're 26 sounds like a losing proposition to me.
What agency does the government run so well that you'd be interested in handing them your health care decisions anyway?

Allen,

I don't think that any healthy parents would 'allow their kids to go without healthcare.' But this is a manipulation of the subject worthy only of liberals, not of you, unless you are being manipulated by liberal propaganda. Before Obama became president healthy young adults got jobs and lived, with or without, their parents health insurance. Prior to Obama care there weren't young adults, under the age of 26, dropping dead all over the fruited plain due to a lack of their parents health insurance.
My offspring, when they are thirty, will no longer be referred to as 'child' unless our society has come unglued.

Allen,
Think about this, how old will you be when your children are 26? My oldest son is already 26, but he's in the military, he's more competent than most people my age. By the time my youngest son is 26 I'll be 62. Under the current economic situation I'll probably work until I die, but it will be hard going if I'm still supporting my youngest son per the Obama care requirements to keep him on healthcare when he's 26. People in their 60s don't have the energy they did in their 40s. Given the ages of the patients I've cared for in hospice, counting on my being able to keep my kids on my healthcare provider into my 60s could be unrealistic because I could be dead by then. So much of what I hear from other people in terms of discussion about the future is based on reality being a distant haze in their minds in which their circumstances go unchanging. If you're 50 years old you've probably lived half of your life already. How much integrity do you want to invest in the last thirty or so years you have left?

Hi Katy,

I think you are mixing up my comments. I said that I would continue to pay for my kids' healthcare as long as I am able, if they needed it, no matter how old I am or how old they are. Hopefully they won't need it. But in my view, being on a healthplan can literally make the difference between life and death. So my choice is to fund my children if they need it. Right now, they are young so this is theoretical for me. This is independent of Romneycare or Obamacare, whether they stay on the books or get repealed. But I don't think it is "society's" burden to pay for my kids' healthcare, it is mine...or theirs.

Citizens voting in their own interest = threat to democracy
Corporations buying politicians who write laws in the corporations' interest = the American way

Hi Chris,

I think you've got it! You must be reading all of my posts to have this evolution in your thinking. Good job, I am proud of you!

Allen

Unions are people, my friend. I think Mitt Romney said that.

No difference. You miss my point. No one should be buying elections. These days both parties, the "good" guys and the "bad" guys are bought and paid for.

That said, since only about 10% of the US workforce is in unions today, I don't see why some want to blame them for every problem in America. It is a distraction from the real issues.

Chris,

Unions are a real issue. Especially public sector unions for which pay and benefits have grown to unaffordable amounts. Stay tuned to the Scott Walker recall vote in Wisconsin in about two weeks.

Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III

Patch Terms of Use - "Patch believes in transparency, and we ask that all your registration information be truthful. You may not use any aliases or other means to mask your true identity. "

"Unions are a real issue."

Explain. Saying something is an issue does not make it so.

Chris wrote: "It is a distraction from the real issues."
Reverend wrote: "Unions are a real issue."
Chris wrote: "Saying something is an issue does not make it so."
----------------
Does saying something is 'not an issue' make it not so? :))

Engaging a liberal in constructive debate is very difficult. You quickly reach a point where the facts do not support their position, so they fall silent or change the subject.

Unless Chris has been living in a cave he would be aware of the impact of the symbiotic relationship between Democrat politicians and public service unions. A generation ago public 'servants' were paid less than private sector employees but that was offset by job security. Nowadays many public sector employees make more money than most in the private sector, retire earlier, pay little for health care and have generous pensions, still have job security, and expect the taxpayer to pony up..

Public sector unions ensure this budget-busting cyle continues until someone brave like Scott Walker says whoa. Chris don't worry, we have set low expectations for your response

Your spiritual advisor,
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III

Hi All,

It's not just the unions, although we are on that topic for the moment. It is our inability as a society to control our spending and promises.

The WSJ had an article today about the Greek "austerity." They basically said that what this means in Greece is a tax increase. There has been little or no cutback of government services or entitlements. There is no structural reform. Their answer is to raise taxes to pay off their debts.

That does not promote growth, of course. And once the politicians get ahold of more money, they tend to find uses for it that benefit their political supporters.

In the U.S., we need to say no to further deficit spending. We need to agree to pay off our debts and stop making future promises that we cannot afford and/or have to renege on. Public unions are a part of this, but entitlements and bloated bureaucracies are probably more important.

Allen,

Agreed... the unions are only doing what their enablers, the politicians, and taxpayers allow. Private sector unions once represented noble causes and pulled many workers from under the thumb of oppression.

Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III

Does Chris' mother catch him using the computer? This could explain his 'succint' replies.

Allen and Charlie... suggest we move on. Our time is too valuable to waste in a one-sided debate. There are many other potential voters out there whose minds are receptive.

Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III

By the way... only learned yesterday that Acton Patch is part of AOL.com and a big business bet formerly run by Arianna Huffington...

"Patch is a network of 500+ “hyperlocal” websites covering 800 communities which combines national/regional information with local community news editors filing stories and updating community-specific within the communities they serve. As of today the Patch network is concentrated mostly in the larger states."

Sorry, but I'm uncomfortable debating someone without the common courtesy to identify themselves. At Town Meeting, we start by identifying ourselves. Seems like the same should apply here. How do we know this guy is even an American? I want to see his birth certificate.

Allen: Greece has problems, but the primary problem is they've given their monetary sovereignty away. Germany is doing to the rest of Europe precisely what the Allies did to Germany after WWI.

Allen, I also wonder what your purpose is here on Patch. If your goal is to shout everyone down until they disappear in frustration and disgust, guess what? - it's working.

Charlie: Real issues? Thanks for asking. Let's start with our Middle East Wars that we've borrowed money for, and have no real exit strategy. Then let's look at what thirty years of deregulation and tax cuts have done to our economy and the middle class in America. Finally, but most important from my perspective, is the complete failure of both parties to make any meaningful progress toward protecting the planet we live on for future generations.

Predicted response, Chris. Suddenly unions aren't the topic anymore. You changed subjects and wandered off.

There is a long rich history in pamphleteering and anonymity. The Federalist papers were published under pseudonyms. The Economist magazine is published without bylines.

Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III

I changed subject? This entire thread has ADD. The topic was healthcare's "threat" to democracy, I believe.

This is a two-bit local newspaper bulletin board, not the Federalist Papers. And you're no James Madison. Stop kidding yourself.

Allen, Charlie - I agree, this is not a place that encourages useful discussion. If you want to talk about any of these issues, lets grab a cup of coffee.

Rather harsh and uncaring of you to make fun of ADD and all the people who suffer from this debilitating disorder. This is rather ill-liberal.

Acton Patch may seem like small potatoes to you but according to the Wall Street Journal, "Patch.com, a network of small-town news sites owned by AOL Inc., has emerged at the center of a tug of war over the Internet company's future...the average Patch site costs between $150,000 and $200,000 a year to operate, last year, or a total of $160 million."

I may not be James Madison but I know how to repeat the words of a famous and nameless little boy who said, "The emperor has no clothes."

"Never bring a knife to a gunfight."

Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III

Actually, the subject of this thread is not healthcare per se, but the ability of voters to legislate benefits for themselves, and how this right is overwhelming our ability to pay for them. Relatively affordable benefits have grown to unaffordable levels, and recipients are unwilling to consider anything other than a continuation and expansion of this type of spending. As the crowd of "receivers" grows and becomes more dependent on the government, the political parties make these promises to garner votes. Anyone who tries to stand up against this trend is attacked as "hurting" this or that interest group. This is a deadly economic spiral which is being fueled by our ability to borrow virtually unlimited funds. As economies eventually run out of money, turmoil ensues. This must eventually happen to the United States as it is currently happening in Greece and will soon happen in other European countries.

"the average Patch site costs between $150,000 and $200,000 a year to operate..."

Patrick Clark we know you are doing a fine job as Editor, but we did not know that your were that well paid. Are you part of the One Percent we've been hearing about?

Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III

Chris, is most worried about, "...the complete failure of both parties to make any meaningful progress toward protecting the planet we live on for future generations."

At age 4.5 billion years with some form of life for the last 0.5 billion years Mother Earth has done pretty well. All the carbon now in the ground in the form of coal, oil and gas must have been in the air at some point. Biology works that way.

Relax Chris... let go of your collective guilt. We are here to help you.

Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III